Ep. 13 I'm a Queer Non-Binary Witch!
Tim & Nia’s wedding
What if gender and relationship norms doesn’t suit?
Nia is a business owner, a creative person, a dancer, married but not a wife. Nia is rock-the-boater, a rebel, a disruptor. They are allergic to the boundaries society creates and makes it their missions to reach far beyond them. Through love of self, their people, and their partners, Nia is testing out what it means to be in the world and in love, while challenging mainstream notions of organizing love, gender and more.
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Introduction by Brittney Monique Walker:
Nia is a free spirit. They live in pursuit of liberation, is dedicated to the empowerment of their people and is constantly disrupting the norms of both within and out. Growing up, Nia was supported by their family to be anyone they wanted to be and explore the world from the lens of freedom. As an adult, Nia has discovered their identity as a queer non-gender conforming witch and navigates their community of like minded people, activists and creatives with an open mind and heart for transformation for self and society. Through their own nontraditional relationships,
Nia is pushing boundaries, making people uncomfortable, and breaking chains of conformity. We open up their story discussing Janet Mott's book, Redefining Realness and its impact on Nia’s life. You're listening to The Black Narrative Experience.
Nia:
I felt like there's so many moments in Janet’s storytelling where she just really wanted people to understand her as woman, as a girl, as feminine. And it made me very aware of all the points from childhood forward that I actually didn't want that, that I was really annoyed or frustrated or uncomfortable or just like felt even at times just like not seen when people would make assumptions about this identity of girl or this identity of woman, or like it just I just was like, Oh, no, I don't know.
I don't know if that's what I feel like right now. And, and at the same time, that not being a consistent thing. From reading that book, I think I went through a variety of thoughts like, am I, am I transmasculine like, am I going that I'm like, No, no, I don't. I don't I don't feel that far on the spectrum in there.
I just I just don’t like any of them. I just don't. And so but I think these stories and this just, you know, Janet does a lot of, I think, honest emotionality in her writing also, you know, the memoir so you're going to get some feelings. But I feel like Janet, as I read it, I just was like, ooh, you had a lot of feelings about this moment or this moment.
And so many of those feelings were related to wanting a family member or somebody, anybody to see her as her and as she saw herself and yeah, it was like, I feel not this. Maybe this is something to think about because and like the idea then thinking about it being an opportunity to potentially give some language to random things.
I had felt uncomfortable I’ve been just like, Oh, it's fine. I identify as a non-binary, witch that is what I have come to understand and be very excited about. I have always had conjuring energy, whether I knew it or not, and always been really interested in magic. And so me being also that like studier and researcher, I was like, I want to know more about these things.
Ended up discovering Wiccan, Wicca and Wiccanism and out of other things. So in high school I made myself a folder like All Things Wiccan and I was like getting readings and articles and all this stuff and my dance teacher who had known me since I was five, was like my other mother found the folder. And was very concerned.
She was like, you cannot do this. And I think it wasn't even so much of like there was definitely some fear and a little bit of Christian guilt in the mix. But I think it was also just like you, this knowing of me and knowing that I'm somebody that will go all the way and not having that not being that not being like a ritual practice that you just go do by yourself.
So, so yeah. So I feel like that was one of the early moments that I was like, but I think these might be my people. And then so much of my spiritual understanding has come through dance and movement. And so when I started dancing with Àse Dance Theatre Collective, which is Adia Tamar Whitaker's company, that was a deeper exploration of Haitian dance, which brought up VouDou and then a bunch of the other people in
Ase also did Yoruba dances. And so then they were. So then there were all these Orisha conversations. And so a lot of those introductions came first through like movement in the body. And then afterwards I would be in spaces where I'd learn more about people's practices, people's traditions, people's initiations, whether you're talking about shamans, whether you're talking about healers, whether you're talk like in all these different indigenous traditions around the world, there are these people who have some connection to magic and spirits, who often don't fit a gender binary, like expect like they have.
And there are even specific cultures where the there is an expectation that if you are in the spiritual leadership role, then you're not actually a man or a woman. Like it's a different it's a totally different gender identity. And so all of those things just kind of mashing up to being like, Yeah, and which is the one that just feels like the simplest work.
And I spent a lot of time reading my journals between like the end of last year and earlier this year. It was around somewhere between 2015 and 2016 that I was like, I am queer. And there was literally a moment where I was sitting on the couch and I popped up and I was like, I am queer. That's yes. And my partner Tim was sitting across the couch and was like, Yeah, that makes sense.
But I was like, No, but like, I've never said that, out loud, yeah. And so and then a couple years later, give or take, I feel like is when I would say like a commitment to non-binary. It really started to bubble up. And then I would say language wise, it really wasn't until last year, until 2020 that I started like telling people explicitly that I don't want to be called she and her and all of those other things, which is still I'm still getting used to that.
I'm still getting because the idea of correcting people just feels like my effort and I don't like anything that feels like man manifest. If it's not moving with ease, does it really have to happen? At the same time, like, I can't deny that. Like when people say she or her to me or whatever, that it's not like a little like tension that happens in my body that I'm like that I've learned to ignore over time, but still is there and is still present.
And so that is like, okay, well you could do something about that. Like you could tell people, stop it. Like if you really don't want to feel that so but even like the movers, we hired a queer moving company called Trans Dimensional Movers. That my my ex-girlfriend used them when she was moving, when she was still my girlfriend.
And they are very loud and proud about having a queer people of color, trans team of movers, all these things. The movers came. They were dope, they were awesome. But then there was a moment where, like I had had a conversation with one of them outside and we came inside and they were like, “yeah, dah dah dah and she's a” I was like, Am I going to correct them right now?
Am I going to? No, it's not happening today. And so I was also just like having compassion for myself to be like, okay, you don't have to tell everybody everything all the time. But also still getting to the place of being willing to articulate that and just be like, actually, no, but you know, and it was funny because I was like, Well, yeah, like, yeah, like Queer Movers.
Why didn't you ask anybody about their pronouns? I was like it’s fine, it’s not. And at the same time, like I've been to different, like queer parties where I'll never forget I was at this. It was a party that was advertised specifically for queer people of color and all that jazz and drinks in hand, music bumpin. This person comes up and is like, So why are everybody's pronouns?
Like, You know what? I appreciate you. You really decided you were going to yell over the music to do that because it's not like there was an outside. We could have walked outside had it. No, you were just like, Right now, this circle of humans, everybody lets out, let's all do pronouns. And so, I mean, it's easier in, in any number of ways, it's easier to move with whatever the quote unquote status quo is like when I am choosing to announce any of these things, I'm choosing to disrupt.
And that is a different kind of effort. And I grew up like I am a disruptor. I know that's one of the ways I exist in the world. I know who my parents are, and that is like it's very much a lineage thing. I have a lovely story about a great grandfather who slapped a white man, and that's why we had to leave Georgia.
And like I am clear, and that doesn't make it any less work. And that doesn't make it any less exhausting sometimes. It doesn't mean there aren't days that I choose to just be like, Whatever. It's fine. The thing, the way that I've gotten really comfortable with pronouns is so I'm also somebody who doesn't use my first name. So when people read my name on paper and I like legal document, I'm like, Don't call me that.
I use my middle name. And so in all of these circles like how do you want to be called? Like, that's it. That's really all I'm asking. Like, how do you want it? Whether your name, whether your pronouns, whether you look like, how do you get this? How do you want me to refer to you when I'm talking to you or when I'm talking about you when you're not here?
And that is the thing that really just kind of like made it click for me is I want to call people how they want to be called like that is a foundational way of being in the world that is important to me. And so whatever ways that I can do that and how I where I need to go about getting that information and whether we sit down and literally be like, Tell me your pronouns, or I just look at you, I'm like, How you want me?
Why would you let me call you? Either way, I'm getting the same information. So I have know my life partner, person 12, 13 years. It's been a minute. the first five years of which I paid that person. No mind whatsoever. We went out on a couple of dates. I was like, Whatever. And it was not until we actually had sex that this person had my attention and I was like, Oh, hey, you might be interesting.
After all, despite having very interesting and deep and thoughtful conversations many times before that moment. And then when we got when we decided to get into a relationship or make it official, as the kids say it was, I was like, oh, I don't I don't want to call you my boyfriend. Nothing about that feels right. And so, I was like,
Can we just can we just, like, try the partner thing, whatever. And that was still a little bit before I was comfortable in identifying as queer. And so, you know, there was a part of my brain that was like, if I use this partner word, people will think that I am referring. And so I think I was a little intrigued by that possibility.
Also and by the possibility of it. Not like they're not being an assumption of heteronormativity, like people having to think about it and and that's been the language that's been pretty functional since then. We did I did enjoy the fiancée I thing just cause it sounds like luxurious you’re my fiancée. So we when we were engaged, we did we did use the language of fiancée for that period of time.
And then once we got married, I went back to partner. Other people tend to do the husband wife thing. And I again just don't have the energy to correct them by so many definitions. I am not a wife. I do not follow any of the rules and regulations. I am rarely the one who's cooking or cleaning like they're just so many...
I'm like, like I'm really I'm a really bad wife. I think if we're just going by the colloquial checkboxes, I'm a good caretaker, like I'm a I'm a real supportive person, but like, Oh, yeah. I don’t know, this wife thing doesn't quite fit. And in the last year and a half, we have shifted to not been in a like, romantic or intimate relationship, but we're still friends, we’re still like homies. I’m like wait,
I like you as a person, like we could kick it. And so now we're friends who are married, who maybe likely quite possibly will return to some type of intimate relationship at some future point. But that the thing that when that shift was happening, the thing that felt really clear was the partnership piece, because this is someone who also helps manage and cultivate the space of Purpose productions.
This is somebody who is very much now immersed in the communities that I'm a part of. And as I would talk to other friends, big sisters, mama aunties, people, they would even be like, Oh, so y'all are like together. But you're still like, you are you like the partnership part? Like, you're still part. I was like, Oh, yeah, I guess, yeah, yeah, that's true.
And so that language has consistently in alignment. And it's funny because I went through three break ups in a year, which I guess is very easy to or reasonable to fathom in a polyamorous life. And also I was like, really? Like everything's just going to end. Okay, cool. Just strip me away, why don't you? And so my partner was in another relationship that had not been fully defined and it was with somebody who I didn't actually like, but I didn't want to dictate Like that shouldn't be the only reason I didn't feel like I deserve that level of control over somebody else's life.
So just because I don't like person doesn't mean you can't be with them. Just means we got to figure out what the boundaries are in essence. And so one of the boundaries was basically just we didn't need to be in a space together, which was mostly functional. And then March 2020 happened. I was in Atlanta for somebody who I've known since middle school, who is like a sister to me, was having her first child and asked me to be their It was within a week.
So Zion was born March 8th. So it's about within a week that like everything started to shut down. And so all of my like ideas and plans about being there to help her with this newborn and all these other things and she live with our parents and her parents went into full shutdown the house mode like nobody's coming in.
these things, like there's no telling, you know, that some people thought that the military might start to, like, be in airports. And just like everybody was concerned. So I was like, alright, fuck it, I just get on a plane or come back.
That happened to be a time where my partner has scheduled time with this other person. And they and I have been like, yeah, like I can share this by y'all can be in the apartment because I'm not going to be here. I'm maybe be in a whole other state, like whatever it’s fine. So it was that it was coming back into that space and all of the already unplannable emotions that were at play about like not being able to be there for this baby and for my friend.
And then I had gotten into a big fight with my mom right before I left. So there's a lot of stuff all happening and when I got back, I was like, I didn't have the energy to even figure out to articulate what I needed. But really what I needed was support and my partner wasn't available and I was like, Cool, I'm out
And so I went to another big sister homies house who knows all of my life and therefore knew all the facets of what was happening and was just like, okay, right, we're going to breathe together. We go, How do you want it? Like, where do you want to be, how you want? And I was like, I don't know, but I don't like I didn't even want to be married at first, but like, all this stuff just started coming out that I had not been saying.
And then it was like shelter in place. Everyone needs to be in their own house. And my friend who has a daughter who has really bad asthma, was like, I love you. Can we figure out how to get you back into your house. Okay. Yes, this makes sense. And also I was like, oh, I went into like logistics planner mode.
I was like, We're going to live like roommates. There will be house rules. Here are all the things that we can and cannot do. And that was life for like two months. Oh, yeah. So she also didn't live in New York. That was the other thing. So she was visiting. But that was the other thing that was kind of funny as I was talking to the people that were close to me, all of them were like,
Why that bitch didn’t go home. It's like, I don't know. But basically once the trip ended, she did go home. It was basically her like her spring break week that she had been there. So and I came back, I think, in the middle of the week. But no, no, it was just the two of us. But like with a lot of feelings and broken trust and feeling guilty and all those other things.
And then I was like, maybe, maybe we just start this all over. It was like, act like two new humans meeting each other and see what that looks like. We did that, had some conversations, and then I think those were some of the moments where I was like, Oh yeah, that's right. Like, I enjoy you as a human.
Like you have an interesting brain and like we talk about the world and stuff and all these other nerd topics. So my wedding anniversary is May 10th and 11th. And so once that time rolled around, I was like, I don't know what to do with this anniversary thing. I feel stressed. As I decided to create a home silent retreat where I was like, I'm going to stay in this room.
You're going to you have the rest like, I'm not going to stay in one room. You can have the rest of the apartment. Obviously, I'm I have to, like, come out and use the bathroom, but otherwise, that's it for those two days. And I was like, no devices. I only used my iPad for, like, the meditation app. There are a lot of writing and journaling and reading and things.
And that was also the moment that I was like, Yeah, I didn't actually want to get married and I did it. Shit. Okay, now what? And I was like, All right, well, I don't actually want to get divorced because that's just a whole lot of money and paperwork. So I guess I had to figure out what it looks like to do this in a different way yet again.
And that led me down a whole bunch of reading about other ways that different cultures engage in marriage and what the role of marriage is and different societies and how it's like a land thing or I think like a way to like build families and like rear children. And so that whole marriage for love is actually a new concept.
Reality. I was like, okay, I can I can I can get down with some of this other stuff we're building things together, we're not bringing people into the world, that’s not happening, but we're helping to raise other people. We have god children, all these things. And so. And then once I got home gradually, because it wasn't a quick thing, but as I move through that acceptance, then I was like, cool we can just be married friend people
Brittney
Why did you get married?
Nia
Because Tim really, really was excited about it and that I wanted to support that excitement like I was. like alright, I mean, and I didn't have a strong feeling about it. Like, I was like in that moment, like I knew that I had generally said that, like, I don't really want to get married.
I don't really want to have kids. Just like I remember being like ten, 12 years old and thinking like, Yeah, I don’t really need to do those things. And then getting older and being like, I don't know, maybe, maybe those. And so, you know, like socialization is a hell of a drug. Like, I just be around. So yeah, I got caught in the wave.
I was just like, you know, I mean, and, you know, the way that we got engaged for me is pretty indicative that that wasn't even really what I wanted because it was the day in 2014 that the police officer who killed Mike Brown was not indicted. So I was like a day we're like protests, were going up all these other things.
And Tim went out and protested and I had rehearsal. And then we got back to the house together and I didn't even I was like we were both super emotional. And I said something along the lines of like the world is shit. We should just like, rock out on that. Like, we should just do it, like, together forever thing or something.
Like, I don't even know what I said. And but then Tim was like, Did you just propose to me? I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. That's what happened. So, so nothing about that really says I was trying to get married and then Tim was like, Oh, damn it you beat me to it. I was going to ask you, you know, there was like a whole hilarious conversation.
And then at the end of it, I was like, Okay, so why are we engaged now or something? So I knew we did. Okay, cool. We're cool.
I just was like, I think we should be partners for life because clearly we're committed to some of the same stuff in the world. Like, that's really what I was trying to say. And I still that part, I still believe. I always appreciate the moment where Adia looked at me and was like, you know, marriage is basically a business contract, right?
So there's there's there's like legal contractual stuff. And even the ways of that, like the legal and the political intertwine. And so what you have access in terms of health care, what you have access to in terms of life insurance, like all these different ways of once that is signed, then you have access to pretty much most of each other’s stuff.
There is the like familial bonding piece, which there's some parts of it that I'm like, yeah, this is cool. There's other parts that I'm like, I don't I don't know. But I think the the general concept of like families joining is definitely a thing. There's the notion of birthing children not here for it. There is associations of attachment that also get on my damn nerves. When I was in Atlanta for most of last year or whatever, last year and this year, there were really people there were like to both of us were like, How?
Like you're married? How does that work? I'm living my life, Tim is living there. What we are asking. I don't know what are you asking? I don't understand the question. And so just this assumption of marriage, like joining being taken so literally, though, like you don't ever separate. Like we don't ever do anything separately. All of your friends or shared friends, all of your activities or joint activities like.
Do I have a joint checking account? Yes, I do. I also have my own checking account. Yes. Like you don't be all together all the time. It's not it's not a thing. So I feel like the way that my life just seems to function is there;s Like, there's like, a seed moment. There's like a moment where I'm like, Oh, maybe this is a thing.
And then there's like a process of maybe, maybe not questioning whatever. And then there's like a moment of commitment. If I feel like the moment of commitment was that like May 2020, Silent retreat, deep dive into other cultural marriage practices. And it was like I was like, Oh yeah, like this is this is the only way that this is going to work.
As with queerness and nonbinariness, I've always been polyamorous even before I knew the language. Tim and I have almost never been monogamous. And I there are some moments where I'm not quite sure how that happened. And there's a moment where I'm like, No, it was really clearly there was a conversation. I would say within three months of us getting into a relationship, we had an unexpected foursome.
We were out. These are people that we knew. Everybody was drinking and having a great time. People were getting flirtatious. What would happen if? And then I had this curiosity. I'm just like, let’s just try it out and see what happens. So I don't think there was ever a assumption that we were going to be monogamous.
And then I think when I started asking out loud for like polyamory or other relationships, that's actually when it got uncomfortable for varying moments, just because I felt like I could see Tim and Tim will tell their own version of the story. But I can see Tim having the like the moment where you grapple with your conditioning and where you're like. This seems also reasonable,
Why am I having this reaction? And so that like not actually being a possessive person, but like being explicitly asked to share your person, bringing up the like feeling that you're supposed to suddenly get possessive. And so that was a tension for a period of time. And so there was a phase of, oh, we're just going to be like, oh, maybe we'll just have sex with other people.
And then there was a phase of, Oh, maybe I'll just be in relationships with other women. And then and then there was and then it was like a like and so it just moved gradually to an acceptance of like. And I think the thing that I appreciated about the language of polyamory is the literal translation of it, it’s many loves.
And so that like at this point now I'm like, oh, like everybody's polyamorous. Do you love more than one person in your life? Do you like, do you care deeply for more than one human in your entire existence? You are loving many people. That's that's it. Everything after that is the details and the boundaries and but like you are loving many people.
And so I think that that's just become one of my, like, foundational philosophies. And I remember listening to this podcast with Ericka Hart and their partner, Ebony and Ericka talked about being polyamorous in politic and I was like, That's a cool, just like this idea that you should be able to love as many people as you desire, as long as you are able to do that in a way that honors and care for those people's humanity and that and, and whether I am actively choosing to be in multiple relationships, that doesn't change me being polyamorous or my politic.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I'm with that. And so that was also, I think just kind of like an opening and a clarifying of how I wanted to practice polyamory with anybody, whether that's me not getting what I want, whether it's Tim not getting what they want s. And then like any moment I think where somebody is not getting what they want, there's, there's discomfort and then there's ways to be like, okay, are we going to give like, am I is this person actually going to get what they want?
Is a shift going to occur or are we just all going to have to sit in the discomfort and figure it out? And I've I've done all of these. I've sat in some discomfort and I’ve been like now or or is this is this discomfort the point at which I know that maybe then it's time for this to end?
And so I think that's like the other thing that comes out of discomfort sometimes, the realization that it's not what you actually want.
Our parents are all aware, my sister, so I would say our immediate family knows. Beyond that the level of knowing varies pretty widely. So I have cousins that I am closer to who know more things, and I have other cousins who just have no idea and think that this is a husband wife situation.
And I think the same is true for Tim's family. I would say that for both of us have parents who had some level of commitment to our own self-determination. And so I think in that way, all of our parents, even if they had a moment of surprise, were kind of like, well, I did raise you to do what you actually wanted.
So this is probably what that looks like. I think that was a phase. My mom finds it very intriguing. Like she asked a lot of questions. She's sometimes really excited about it. It's also ironic to me that one of the first, her first questions was, Well, what happens if Tim gets somebody else pregnant? Is that what we're starting this conversation like?
That's that's your first thought. Okay. Well, I think, first of all, that person would have to tell us what they want to do in the situation and how they would like to be supported. And then we would all have a conversation like. Yeah, my mom has a lot of curiosity. My, my dad is… my dad's first response was, Oh, let me know how that works out for you.
Okay. That didn't sound like not support. I don't know if that was support either. And it was not until recently that my dad explicitly that he doesn't want to meet any of my other partners, which I was like, Oh, that's all right. I appreciate your naming your boundaries. And then I think like my chosen family, all my chosen family is people who probably like almost all of them, know and are anywhere between curious and super supportive.
You know, it also just makes me really aware of how many people love me and how many people want me to be happy and feel loved and have all of the joys that I desire and things. And so this, there is this mixture of protection and wanting to understand and wanting to be supportive in whatever way that people know how, even if that is the way of like, I will fight for you.
That is both intriguing. Like it, it makes me think a lot about all the ways that people learn how to love. And it's pretty nice. It's heartwarming. I've tried for a long time to not be in relationships or to be in very superficial relationships or to be in as detached relationships as possible. And it functioned. It wasn't particularly joyful.
It definitely wasn't particularly transformative. And so, and being in a relationship in the ways that in particular, the current repressive U.S. societal structure suggests also wouldn't be joyful or transformative. And so this, the language of redefining relationships just really resonates in the sense of like that feels like the only way that I've been able to find joyful and pleasurable and healing and supportive and enlivening relationships in my lifetime.
Brittney
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